Curse

manitoba1073 · Jun 26, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

OK Ill try to explain it as simple as possible. Since some people are confused alot on how Loot Scaling actually works while soloing and not soloing.

First all drops are random.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

That is just the effects of Loot Scalling alone on soloing, with HM involved the only difference is you have a higher chance on the exemptions dropping instead of whites. In NM Its similar without the higher chance of exemptions dropping, while still being exempt.

Now for the rest of it.

Loot Scaling had NO EFFECT on its own except lower drop rates for less than max groups.Dont believe me look at the first 12 hours it was driving prices on everything up, then Anerf had a OH %^$& moment, and added the exemptions list is what allowed the prices to come down by increasing supply.

With HM the only difference is that the chance for drops from the exemptions list is increased.

So for all those out there that thinks it was Loot Scaling that helped you, you are wrong, it was the exemptions list.

Also mods try to leave this stickied so people dont get confused on Loot Scalling anymore.

arcanemacabre · Jun 26, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

So, as your math teacher told you - show your work!

Seriously, I'd like to know how you came up with these percentages, especially the "98%" of pre-searing you claim. You throw out pretty random numbers and expect everyone to just accept them? Or is there some kind of magic formula that was released by the devs or that you worked out on your own? Guesstimates? LoL if it's the last one.

holababe · Jun 26, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Not to sound too doubting but yeah...some evidence would be nice.

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 26, 2007, 07:49 AM // 07:49

65% of all stats are made up on the spot.

And 15% can be displayed to prove anything.

Serious where is the evidence?

Etta · Jun 26, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!!!
My drop rates are not that much different between solo and grouping, solo still give me as much drop as before.

manitoba1073 · Jun 26, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

You want the proof its simple Ill show you.

its in here. Says a solo farmer will earn double what a single person in a group of 8 would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

How does loot scaling work?

Without loot scaling, solo farmers received every loot drop, whereas people who played in a party received only a fraction of loot drops. Thus, solo farmers received up to eight times as much loot for killing the same group of monsters. With loot scaling in place, solo farmers still get more loot than people who play in parties, but the gap is less severe than it was before. It is impossible to quantify precisely how much less because it depends on the type of loot farmed and involves some randomness, but here are some rough guidelines:

People who play in normal size parties, including parties of heroes and henchman, will see no difference at all from loot scaling. At the same time, they will notice that normal mode is now much easier to farm, and that the introduction of Hard Mode provides a place they can play where the loot is better than ever before. Thus, people who play the game primarily in parties will simply make more money than they previously did.

People who periodically enjoy farming solo (with no heroes or henchmen) but are casual about it are also likely to see an improvement. They'll find that solo farming is much easier than it was before, because monsters don't have the anti-farming AI that they used to have, and because the game no longer prevents players from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over. Many types of builds that didn't work in the past, or that haven't been effective since the earliest days of Guild Wars, can now be used for solo farming. Thus, casual farmers will find the game much easier to farm than it was before, and that they can earn more money than before even with loot scaling in place.

People who were advanced solo farmers and who were earning vastly more money through solo farming than through playing the game normally will see the full effect of loot scaling. They will earn less gold and common loot from solo farming than they did in the past. The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness, so while the difference is not easy to quantify, it is by no means a factor of eight. Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party. While gold and common loot are thus reduced for these players by loot scaling, certain other types of loot are completely unaffected. For example, Skill Tomes are completely unaffected by loot scaling, so they still drop eight times as frequently for solo farmers than they do for people who play in parties. Thus, advanced solo farmers will find that certain types of farming are still extremely productive for them, but they may have to change what and where they farm if they want to earn as much money as they did before.

If ArenaNet makes it harder for players to farm, doesn't that drive players to purchase gold for cash from the professional farmers?

Thus, with today's build, all of the following types of items will now be exempt from loot scaling:

Skill Tomes
Scrolls
Dye
Rare materials
All rare (gold colored) items
All unique (green) items
Special event items

And then you can go on that with math to figure for groups of 6,4,2 since the percentage for a person to get a drop in a full group is around 14%-16%

Operative 14 · Jun 26, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

I want to ask, where did you get the ingame randomizers algorithem?

***********Edit*********

He answered it just as i posted

Winterclaw · Jun 26, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

65% of all stats are made up on the spot.

94.92% of my braincells think you just made that up, .08% aren't sure, and the other 5% is wondering why female mesmers don't have more lingere-style armor like their enchanter's outfit.

arcanemacabre · Jun 26, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Says a solo farmer will earn double what a single person in a group of 8 would.

I believe the words you are looking for are: "Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party." Also: "The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness..."

Key words bolded.

Now, I ask again, where are you getting your percentages?

the_jos · Jun 26, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party

Farming in an 8 person party nets roughly 1/8 of the drops.
Getting about twice as much would be 2/8, or 1/4 or 25%.
Calculating the element of randomness is not really possible.
However, this depends on the implementation. For example, it could be that the randomness is calculated on the type of enemy (where Vermin has a low chance for drop compared to Oni). Even the mode you are in can affect this.
It could be that this was indicated by "but they may have to change what and where they farm"

That's for common drops.
Some items are exempt from scaling, giving a higher overal chance to get a drop.

I think manitoba1073 is correct with his statement between 24 and 28% for 8-person parties.
The lower end because of the 'about' and the high end because of the exempts.

arcanemacabre · Jun 26, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

I think manitoba1073 is correct with his statement between 24 and 28% for 8-person parties.
The lower end because of the 'about' and the high end because of the exempts.

I don't think so. The random factor is most likely between 1/8 and 1/4 for a standard 8-person zone solo. Nobody knows because Anet will not release their "top secret" random drop code. So, anywhere between 12.5% and 28% would be my guess (the other non-loot-scaled items would likely have a less than 3% drop rate combined - agreed there). It's not a guaranteed double amount, it's quite variable.

The 98% for pre-searing is waay off. Between 50-100% is such a large variable, you could estimate around 75% - or 3 out of every 4 enemies will net you a drop. If that's true, then I must be damn lucky, since I was getting 100% drop rate while farming in pre 30-40 runs (after the first few kills). But hey, saying 98% sure does solve that dilemma, huh?

Pandora's box · Jun 26, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

I'm confused about loot scaling because it seems to be broken for 8 man hench/hero parties. Before loot scaling happened I used to get 50-100 gold from level 20+ monsters about every 5th monster killed (normal mode). After loot scaling this has dropped to an average of about 10 gold for killing 5 monsters. And we talk about 8 men hench/hero parties, so full size! Loot scaling should not affect that!?

upier · Jun 26, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

You want the proof its simple Ill show you.
Its in here. Says a solo farmer will earn double what a single person in a group of 8 would.

And then you can go on that with math to figure for groups of 6,4,2 since the percentage for a person to get a drop in a full group is around 14%-16%

Wasn't the old official word on the street that buyable character slots won't happen since its impossible to implement them?
You sure you want to believe EVERYTHING they serve you without any proof - or especially if the data provided by the community is contradicting that?

JeniM · Jun 26, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

94.92% of my braincells think you just made that up, .08% aren't sure, and the other 5% is wondering why female mesmers don't have more lingere-style armor like their enchanter's outfit.

My Mesmer has enchanters armor

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 26, 2007, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

94.92% of my braincells think you just made that up, .08% aren't sure, and the other 5% is wondering why female mesmers don't have more lingere-style armor like their enchanter's outfit.

20% of braincells sent there time working out your %, 60% spent there time remembering the female mesmers, 40% realised they didn't know maths!

manitoba1073, thanks for your instigation on the subject, but the gaile quote is hardly evidence. Untill a empirical study is conducted or actual rates are given by Anet, I refuse to believe/ have faith in any such theories.

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 26, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Wasn't the old official word on the street that buyable character slots won't happen since its impossible to implement them?
You sure you want to believe EVERYTHING they serve you without any proof - or especially if the data provided by the community is contradicting that?

Don't forget the old 'There is no farming code' response, which loot scaling uncovered there was such a effect in place.

Aphraelyn · Jun 26, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

20% of braincells sent there time working out your %, 60% spent there time remembering the female mesmers, 40% realised they didn't know maths!

I'm pretty sure his maths is right on

Rusty Deth · Jun 26, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Once again Hard Mode FTW!!!

Plus anyone else notice bosses sometimes drop 3 things? Wonder how that factors in, and thats in normal mode most of the time.

Kinn · Jun 26, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

What about the "anti-nuke" code that is clearly in effect at the moment?

Just to recap - if a lot of monsters die at the same time, the amount of drops from these monsters is significantly reduced compared to what you would get had you killed them one at a time.

This has been proved as one of the mechanisms in place as part of loot scaling.

Miral · Jun 26, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

uhh never heard of that one there, Kinn...